‘Movement is a larger thing’
Kamla Bhasin is a renowned feminist activist and gender trainer in South Asia. She has written extensively on gender issues. Most notable among her publications are: Borders and Boundaries: Women in India’s Partition, co-authored by Ritu Menon, Rutgers University Press, 1998, and What is Patriarchy? Kali for Women, 1993. Interviewed by Nazneen Shifa, a development worker and feminist activist in Dhaka.
NS: We know that you have a long experience in South Asia. Do you think that there is any difference between feminist movements and NGO-based gender rights activities?
KB: I think movement is a much larger thing. So, if there is NGO-based feminist thinking and activities I call it part of the feminist movement. I do not make a distinction whether you are working in an NGO or you are working in a government organisation or you are working in a newspaper. A movement is not an organisation, a movement is a much larger thing. So, if NGOs are doing something in a very strong feminist way, according to my understanding and definition, they would be part of the feminist movement. So, I do not thing there is a difference in that way. I mean weather you are eastern NGO or you are based anywhere…I think sometimes the misunderstanding is that movement is an organisation. Movement is not an organisation. For example, a writer like Taslima Nasrin according to me would be part of the larger feminist movement or somebody like Shameem Akhtar, a feminist filmmaker, is part of a movement; she does not have to be part of a group to belong to a movement. So, I think they are all part of the larger feminist movement.
In every context, we have specific kinds of movements, like women’s rights movement, but how do you relate these with the globalised gender rights movement?
A movement is spontaneous work of a large number of people all over the world. So, all the activities which take place in Bangladesh or India are automatically part of the global movement. So we don’t have to be connected to somebody outside. That’s my understanding of a movement. What is global feminist movement? Global feminist movement is made up of hundreds of group working in Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Sri Lanka or anywhere else; that is the global movement. Movement is not a membership thing. Movement is not something thing that you have to become a member of something global.
Since the 1980s, the feminist movement has been reshaped by the appropriation of global gender rights discourse. After the 80s, there took place a huge change by the intervention of NGOs in the context of women’s rights movement. Now we do not see a lot of spontaneous activities; more often than not things are NGO-funded. How do you evaluate this situation?
There are the advantages and disadvantages of the mainstreaming of gender. The concerns of gender have become mainstreamed and I am sure after sometime the cultural movement that you mentioned will also be mainstreamed. Now why did this happen? In the context of feminist movement because it has become mainstreamed, thousands of NGOs are doing it and today they are doing the same things which we were doing 20 years ago without payment. I do not know whether the work is less or the work is bad. The work is perhaps better organised. It is perhaps happening in all districts of Bangladesh and it is working on all issues which we are working. Just because it is funded by somebody, it does not reduce the value of the work necessarily. You have to see whether this is bad work or good work. For example, the work of most of the women’s rights organisation, is it bad work because they have just borrowed money? Or the work that the United Nations Development Programme is doing for the sensitisation of the police force. Earlier we had no access to the police but today because of our efforts, because of the women’s movements, the police also realise that they have to do gender sensitisation.
So this is what happens to any issue which becomes mainstreamed and really gender is one of the finest examples of mainstreaming. Very few other issues have got mainstreaming like that. I think it is a result of the women’s movement and I think what you have to judge is not the fact that whether these things have been taken over by NGOs. We have to judge whether they are as effective as before or more effective than before. Earlier, how many of the spontaneous michil and demonstration were taking place? Today, when we celebrate women’s day in Bangladesh, it is celebrated in 5000 villages. Earlier, were we able to do it? No. So I think I look at it that way. But, yes, some organisations have become established and may be if the women’s day merges in a holiday, may be they will not celebrate it. Because now you only do it 9 to 5 and some people are also working like that. But I would still consider them as part of the movement because for me the concept of movement is a much larger thing. They are still challenging patriarchy, they are still writing against it, working against it, even if they are working 9 to 5. Now, thousands of organizations are working 9 to 5 on these issues.
So, what we need to look at is not where the funds are coming from but the proper utilisation of the funds and the quality of work?
We have to see the quality of work. Funds are not a bad thing. Earlier also we needed funds but you were contributing small money here, small money there. People were required and at that time many of us were doing a full time job somewhere else, maybe selling Coca-Cola, and for two hours we were doing feminism. Now, because of the existence of funds, we are not selling ourselves to Coke or to a university or a college, we work full-time on these issues.
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